tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-941881639491756278.post5973104580888354531..comments2023-06-11T12:13:23.085+00:00Comments on Writing: The Boot Camp Diaries: Too Good?The Boot Camp Diarieshttp://www.blogger.com/profile/10553474526217476846noreply@blogger.comBlogger6125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-941881639491756278.post-86580887042965868832007-10-17T18:19:00.000+00:002007-10-17T18:19:00.000+00:00I do take your point... and I think when you are t...I do take your point... and I think when you are talking about the lower end, it is easy, sure, to say that a well written, solid but unchallenging piece might do well. Or 'will' do well, as you predicted. <BR/><BR/>Most strong writers simply do not enter these things. So send in the relative 'big guns' and they sweep the board... but in what? <BR/><BR/>Is it as easy when you are talking Cadenza? There were some very strong pieces submitted in the previous comp, from some very good writers, and I was grateful for the analytical grid in separating my responses right through the reading'judging process. <BR/><BR/>I don't know Wells. Is it well thought of? <BR/><BR/>Fish and Bridport are harder, aren't they? Both market on both sides of the pond. It can't be a coincidence that they both chose American writers as judges this year. Which means that they are getting many hundreds of entries from the MFA programmes as the prizes are far greater than most US comps.<BR/><BR/>But I digress again.<BR/><BR/>You have been placed in Bridport. Would you say that your own stories were 'womag with a coupla decent sentences'? <BR/><BR/>I'm not sure of the first one... was it The Card? Hardly womag. Deceptively simple, if I remember. Strong, strong thematically.<BR/><BR/>The second I know well. Again... hardly womag. Strong voice, great characterisation, punchy thematic stuff. So if you were getting placed with decent work, is it not possible that others are too?<BR/><BR/>Or are you saying that standards have fallen in the last few years? You may be right. (grins) I would need evidence.Vanessa Gebbiehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00833187671441310234noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-941881639491756278.post-16454378469699247942007-10-17T17:02:00.000+00:002007-10-17T17:02:00.000+00:00Good, better, best is NOT subjective.Occassionally...Good, better, best is NOT subjective.<BR/><BR/>Occassionally good/better might be marginal and have a degree of subjectivity but it's dumb to pretend quality is subjective. If that's the case then all criticism is pointless, so are editors and judges.<BR/><BR/>But you keep moving away from the basic point. <BR/><BR/>I wasn't talking about New Yorker or Ploughshares or Paris Review, I was talking about Bridport, Fish, Wells, Cadenza, and the like. I was talking about the UK market which is for writers not readers as Zen pointed out.<BR/><BR/>As for "do we know what is right and good?" OF COURSE we do. You wrote a story in Boot Camp and I told you what it was worth and SPECIFICALLY which comp it would win. It duly won that competition.<BR/><BR/>Second I "know" because I can routinely win a percentage of competitions, BUT ONLY IF I SEND IN MY SECOND TIER WORK, typically "flashes" and exercises.<BR/><BR/>I "know" because I predict what will happen to which stories, mine or those by others.<BR/><BR/>One of the most commonplace comments when a BCer wins a comp is something on the lines of, "I sent in 2/3 and this one was far weaker."<BR/><BR/>That has been my experience and the experience of DOZENS of writers I know. I've seen comp winners and shaken my head in disbelief especially when I know what didn't make the final listings.<BR/><BR/>I have seen fine writers say things like, "A womag plot with one or two good sentences will usually win." Another, an ex-BCer has stated that the winning story is an instant-gratification story. His best stories (his definition and I admire his judgement) remain unpublished.<BR/><BR/><BR/>AlexThe Boot Camp Diarieshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10553474526217476846noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-941881639491756278.post-65176452515654902072007-10-17T16:24:00.000+00:002007-10-17T16:24:00.000+00:00'Good, better, best'. It is all subjective. How ma...'Good, better, best'. It is all subjective. <BR/><BR/>How many of us can really 'see' our own work for what it is? I know I still have to learn to do that.<BR/><BR/>I recognise that all writers must get to a point where, as you say - you know that everything you write is OK or more than OK. You have developed your own internal feedback loop.<BR/><BR/>But that ain't good enough.<BR/><BR/>How do you know without external feedback whether your work is better than the average piece appearing in Paris Review, Granta, Ploughshares, TNY?<BR/><BR/>You don't.Vanessa Gebbiehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00833187671441310234noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-941881639491756278.post-13479672870536838552007-10-17T15:51:00.000+00:002007-10-17T15:51:00.000+00:00Allt that, to me is irrelevant (and I'm not only t...Allt that, to me is irrelevant (and I'm not only talking about competitions, anyway). The question to hand is whether the best stories get published or win prizes.<BR/><BR/>I think they do NOT.<BR/><BR/><BR/>alxThe Boot Camp Diarieshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10553474526217476846noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-941881639491756278.post-63348172687363914402007-10-17T14:53:00.000+00:002007-10-17T14:53:00.000+00:00I think perspective is important here.It is true t...I think perspective is important here.<BR/><BR/>It is true that it is mainly writers who follow the major competitions. But agents and publishers are also interested and I’m sure that those writers in BC who have placed or come close in Fish and Bridport can confirm that. <BR/><BR/>Many solid writers have had valuable affirmation from these comps at an early stage in their careers, and acknowledge them in their bios. It is undeniable that they can open doors. And those doors almost always (seems to me) include the word ‘novel’ on the nameplate.<BR/><BR/>Coming close or placing is great; there is a cheque attached. But I do think the comps must not be seen as an end in themselves. They are one small step up a tough, unpredictable and often ‘unscientific’ mountainside. <BR/><BR/>The market is what it is. We just have to get over the fact that it - like life - unfair, and carry on.Vanessa Gebbiehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00833187671441310234noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-941881639491756278.post-14848564216946630972007-10-17T11:01:00.000+00:002007-10-17T11:01:00.000+00:00Hey up Alex and everyone else at BC.Seems to me th...Hey up Alex and everyone else at BC.<BR/><BR/>Seems to me that the UK Literary short story scene is a writers not readers scene. <BR/><BR/>It's only writers who know or care about the comps, mags and ezines. <BR/><BR/>It's very unlikely you're going to be talking to someone who isn't a writer and hear... <BR/><BR/>"Yeah I read this great short story in a mag/on the web/that won this comp."<BR/><BR/>It's unlikely you'll even hear that from writers. The interest for most begins and ends with the writer's own story. <BR/><BR/>So with writers only caring about outlets for their own stories, it would seem most comp judges (writers themselves)will be unlikely to care for any story or writer they feel is beyond their own ability.<BR/><BR/>So I agree with what you're saying about comps and judges but think it's part of a problem with the uk short story scene. A scene in such bad health that it regularly gets pronounced dead.<BR/><BR/><BR/><BR/><BR/>Lee.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com